Nature of God – LDS View


The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints view of the nature of God can be clearly seen in its founder Joseph Smith conference sermon which was combined with the funeral of Elder KIng Follett, known as the king Follett discourse.  Joseph Smith talking about the character and nature of God said


“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in your heavens! That is the great secret.  If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and you who uploads all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible –  I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form –  like yourself in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image, and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and  walked, talked, and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another”(1)


He also said


“In order to understand the subject of the dead, for the consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how he came to be so; far I am going to tell you how God came to be God.   We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see.


These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple.   It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for certain to the character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible”(1)


Joseph Smith taught that God has not always been God and that God himself was once a man like us  who became God.


Some Mormon apologists respond when quoting the discourse that this is not part of their standard works.  However these are the teachings of their founder at an official conference and has been quoted often by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as been authoritative.


Doctrine and Covenants 130 : 22 states that God has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as a man’s.


“The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.” (2)


The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believe in a council of Gods and that you can become a God,


Abraham 4 : 1


“ And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth.”(3)


Nature of God – Biblical View


The Bible teaches that God created the first man adam (4).  That God created man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils (5).


The bible says that God is eternal and has always existed, “from everlasting to everlasting”(6).  It also teaches that there is only one God, “before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me”(7), and that God is spirit (8).  In fact God said that he “doesn’t even know of any other Gods” (9).


The Gospel


The bible is clear that mankind has violated his eternal law and that all have sinned, that’s what sin is. A violation of God’s commandments.


Some of the  commandments are;  You “shall not worship no other Gods” (10).  “You shall not commit adultery” (11).  Jesus expanded this commandment and said “whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (12) and “you shall not steal” (13).  We have only looked at three of God’s commandments.  The bible summarises God’s commandments as “you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and will all your mind” (14) and “you shall love your neighbour as yourself” (15).


If anyone is honest with themselves they would admit to breaking God’s Holy law.  This leaves man in rebellion to its creator.  The Bible even describes our good deeds as “filthy rags” (16).


God is just and holy and because of his justice the bible tells us that all lairs, thieves, adulterers and sexual immorality will not inherit the kingdom of God (17).  The “wages of sin is death” (18).  Physical death as well as spiritual death.  The second death in the Bible is described as a “lake of fire” (19) and “everlasting punishment” (20).


However the Good News is that God has not left man in his fallen state.  God has shown his infinite love and mercy towards man.  Man is not deserving of his love and mercy and God doesn’t owe man anything.  However God brought about man’s redemption through Jesus Christ.


Jesus Christ the second person of the divine godhead, who had existed from all eternity before the world was (21).  The creator of all things stepped into his own creation to bring about man’s redemption.  Jesus was not just a prophet and or a good teacher but was the God man (22).  He was the first sinless man (23).  He voluntarily laid down his own life (24) and died on a cross to pay the penalty for man.  However he was resurrected (25), defeating death and now offers a free gift of everlasting life (26).


Since man is in rebellion against God man can only be saved by grace through faith so that no man can boast (27)




  1. Joseph Fielding Smith, ed., Teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith, page, 345 – 347
  2. Doctrine and Covenants 130 : 22
  3. Abraham 4 : 1
  4. Genesis 1 : 27
  5. Genesis 2 : 7
  6. Psalm 90 : 2
  7. Isaiah 43:10
  8. John 4 : 24
  9. Isaiah 44:8
  10. Exodus 20 : 3
  11. Exodus 20 : 14
  12. Mathew 5 : 27 – 28
  13. Exodus 20 : 13
  14. Matthew 22 : 37
  15. Matthew 22 : 39
  16. Isaiah 64 : 6
  17. 1 Cornithians 6 : 9 – 11
  18. Romans 6 : 23
  19. Revelation 20 : 14
  20. Matthew 25 : 46
  21. John 1 : 1 – 3 & John 17 : 3 – 5
  22. John 1 : 14
  23. Hebrews 4 : 15
  24. John 10 : 18
  25. Luke 24
  26. John 3 : 16
  27. Ephessians 2 : 8 – 9




Is Jesus a Created Being?

Many cults like the Jehovah Witnesses deny the trinity.  The Watchtower and bible tract society teach that Jesus was a created being the first and direct creation of Jehovah and all other things were created through him.  I have had many street conversation with Jehovah Witnesses and when I ask them for a verse that says Jesus is a created being they often quote Colossians 1 : 15.

Colossians 1 : 15 – “He is the image of the invisible God,+ the firstborn of all creation” (New World Translation, Jehovah Witnesses own translation of the bible).

The Jehovah Witnesses understand firstborn to mean first created and then  all other things were made through him.

“God created Jesus before creating Adam. In fact, God created Jesus and then used him to make everything else, including the angels. That is why the Bible calls Jesus “the firstborn of all creation” by God.”​—  Taken from jw.org (https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20130301/when-jesus-created-why-son/#?insight[search_id]=3d0bb731-75e3-49b6-8fc7-fe1a1e888531&insight[search_result_index]=0)

However this is what firstborn means and is this how the original audience of Colossians would have understood it.  The book of Colossians was a epistle (letter) from Paul to the believers in Colosse (ch1 : 1 – 2). Paul was responding to some of the Gnostic teaching that was infiltrating the Church of Colosse.  This teaching was that Jesus was a demigod. The Jehovah witnesses interpretation of this verse would confirm this teaching not speak against it.

The term firstborn is used elsewhere in the scriptures and refers to authority instead of genealogical.  In Psalm 89 David is referred to as the firstborn.

“I have found David, my servant;

   with my holy oil I have anointed him,

21 so that my hand shall be established with him;

   my arm also shall strengthen him.

22 The enemy shall not outwit him;

   the wicked shall not humble him.

23 I will crush his foes before him

   and strike down those who hate him.

24 My faithfulness and my steadfast love shall be with him,

   and in my name shall his horn be exalted.

25 I will set his hand on the sea

   and his right hand on the rivers.

26 He shall cry to me, ‘You are my Father,

   my God, and the Rock of my salvation.’

27 And I will make him the firstborn,

   the highest of the kings of the earth”. (Psalm 89 : 20 – 27, ESV, emphasis added.)  

However 1 Samuel 17 : 13 indicates that Eliab was the first born.  

“he three oldest sons of Jesse had followed Saul to the battle. And the names of his three sons who went to the battle were Eliab the firstborn, and next to him Abinadab, and the third Shammah.” (1 Samuel 17 : 13, ESV)

The term firstborn 1 Colossians 1 : 15 in the Greek language is not referring to birth but to kingship, authority and preeminence.  The first place in all things as the creator of all things. God assigned this title to David as it would be his lineage that the messiah would come.  (Matthew ch 1).

The bible clearly teaches that Jesus was the creator of all things and not a created being.  The bible identifies Jesus as Jehovah (Yahweh). An example of this can be seen in John chapter 12

John 12 is at the  end of jesus public ministry.

“The reason why they were not able to believe is that again Isaiah said:  “He has blinded their eyes and has made their hearts hard, so that they would not see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn around and I heal them.”  Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory, and he spoke about him. All the same, many even of the rulers actually put faith in him, but they would not acknowledge him because of the Pharisees, so that they would not be expelled from the synagogue; for they loved the glory of men even more than the glory of God” (John 12 : 39 – 43, New World Translation).  

Within these few verses there is a reference  to Isaiah 6:10 which in the New World Translation is referenced to in the footnotes.   

“Make the heart of this people unreceptive,+Make their ears unresponsive,+And paste their eyes together,So that they may not see with their eyesAnd hear with their ears,So that their heart may not understandAnd they may not turn back and be healed.” (Isaiah 6 : 10, New World Translation)

Isaiah 6 is a vision of Yahweh( Jehovah) in John he tributes this to Jesus.  Isaiah identifies Yahweh as the one sitting on the throne. However John identifies Jesus as the one sitting on the throne.  This is not a contradiction if the doctrine of the trinity is true.



Big Problems with the Big Bang

Man’s theories are not without its problems.   One of the biggest scientific problems with the big bang theory is that if it is true then it should of produced equal amounts of matter and antimatter.   Matter is anything that has mass and takes up space. They are four states of matter solids, liquids, gases, plasma. The state of matter is about how the molecules and atoms are arranged.   Antimatter has the same mass as matter but each particle has the opposite charge of matter. Samuel Ting a leading advocate in the search of antimatter says “ At the beginning, equal amounts of matter and antimatter were created.  Now there seems to be only matter. There have been theoretical speculations about the disappearance of antimatter, but no experimental support”.  In the observational universe we have plenty of matter but no or little antimatter.


Another problem with the big bang theory is called the horizon problem.  The cosmic microwave background supposedly shows that the universe had a uniformed temperature before the light could of travelled there.  Even assuming the time scale of 15 billion years is accurate it still isn’t enough time for light to travel from one end of the universe to the other.  


Inflation theory has been developed as a rescue device to fix some of the problems with the big bang theory.  However it is only a theoretical theory and has no observational support. There was a discovery of a signal called the bicep signal that was supposedly observational support for inflation.  However after a more detailed analysis it was thought that the signal was stardust as a result of a supernova. See http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/us/a-speck-of-interstellar-dust-rebuts-a-big-bang-theory.html?_r=0 for further information.         

Can We Really Fit Millions Of Years Into The Bible

Can we really fit millions or billions of years into the bible.

Even if we could interpret the word day as a thousand years in Genesis chapter one we would still have a  problems syncing it with man’s origins as the order of creation is completely different.

The big bang theory says the world began with the stars but the creation account says these didn’t come  till day four. There is no one point in the creation ordered that matches big bang model.

The big bang theory isn’t just a theory about the past but also of the future. According to the theory the universe will continue to expand and as a result the universe will end up in a state called heat death.  This happens as a result of all usable energy has been used up.

However the bible offers hope and  promises that God will bring judgement and that he will create a new heaven and a new earth.


Revelations 21:1 “now i saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea” (NKJV).

Understand Genesis Chapter 1 and 2

Genesis chapters 1 and 2

Genesis chapter one gives us a brief chronological order of the creation week. Genesis chapter two is a more detailed look into the sixth day. It is not two separate creation accounts.

Genesis like the rest of the Old testament was originally written in biblical Hebrew. Therefore we are going to look at this as a piece of Hebrew literacy. Like any form of communication we need to look at what the original author intended.

There are some Christians that say this is poetry and figurative and therefore not literal history. Recently I have heard teaching that Genesis chapter one is a Hebrew hymn. However when we look at the Hebrew language and the Hebrew verbs used, it is more inline with Hebrew historic narrative rather than poetry. In Genesis 1 the first verb bara (create) is perfect while the following verbs are imperfect.

Hebrew poetry uses what is called parallelisms which we can see many examples of in poetry books of the bible such as Psalms. This is where the lines of two or more verses are directly related to each other. An example of this is Psalm 19 : 1 – 2, “The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals knowledge”. The second line repeats the first having the same meaning but in different words. However this is rarely found in Genesis 1 – 11. Meaning that the book of Genesis was written as historic narrative and not as poetry.

Genesis Chapter one starts of saying “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.”

If you look at the chapter as a whole, it is clear that we are talking about six literal days. That’s six 24 hour days. We are told that the first day God created the heavens, earth. That it was created in darkness and god created the light. God divided the darkness and the light. He called the light day and the darkness night. The first day is concluded with evening and morning, the first day. This is repeated for the remaining six days.

The Hebrew word for day is “Yom”. Just like the english word day, Yom has many meanings. For example where going on holiday in 7 days times. This means 7 24 hour days. But if I said back in my day we didn’t have computers. In this context the word day doesn’t mean a literal 24 hour day. Context defines meaning. So let’s look at the hebrew word Yom in its context and see if we can define its meaning.

The word Yom appears in the old testament about 2303 times.

Outside of Genesis chapter one the word yom appears with a number 359 times and always means a literal day. It appears 23 times with evening or morning and always means a literal day. It appears with the word night 53 times and always means a literal day. So when does the word yom mean a literal 24 hours? When it appears with a number, evening, morning or night.

Now let’s look at Genesis chapter one:

  • Genesis 1 : 5 evening, morning, number day.

  • Genesis 1 : 8, evening, morning, number day.

  • Genesis 1 : 13 evening, morning, number day.

  • Genesis 1 : 19 evening, morning, number day.

  • Genesis 1 : 23 evening, morning, number day.

  • Genesis 1 : 31 evening, morning, number day.

“By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the army had marched around them for seven days.” (Hebrew 11: 30,NIV)

We wouldn’t try to argue that the army marched around the wall for thousands of years because it is obviously it is referring to seven 24 hour days.

When we read the Genesis account naturally with the separation of morning and evening and numbered days it is always obvious it is referring to 6 literal 24 hour days.

Some people say how can you have a day if the sun wasn’t made until day four. Scientifical a day is based upon the rotation of the earth. So to have a day we need a rotating earth and a light source to give us morning and evening. Genesis 1 : 3 Then God said. “let there be light” and there was light”. So God created a light before the Sun. Revelation 21:23 says “The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it for the glory of God illuminated it. The lamb is its light”. This verse tells us that when the new heaven and new earth is created the sun will not be needed.

The only reason to not take Genesis literally is to fit the evolutionary worldview of billions of years into the bible. However I would challenges us not to bring outside ideas into the bible but shape our worldview from the bible.

What is Science

The word science basically means knowledge. There are two types of knowledge, observational knowledge and historical knowledge.

Observational science (knowledge) is sometimes referred to as operational or mechanical science. This is science that we can directly observe. This is how we build our technology and develop medicines. This science uses the scientific method of observe, test and repeat.

All scientists have the same observational science. This is how creationist scientist Raymond Vahan Damadian was able to invent the first MRI scanner. The notion that creation scientist cannot do good science is simply wrong.

The mere fact that we are able to do observational science and repeat experiments and expect to get the same results shows that the universe is logical and orderly. This only makes sense if a creator made it that way. You cannot get order from no order. If you came across a filing cabinet with its files in alphabetical order you would not assume that the filing cabinet ordered the files itself, instead that someone must have ordered them.

Colossians 1 : 17 “And he is before all things, and in him all things consist”.

Historical science is knowledge about past events. Historical science is also referred to as origins science. We can not apply the scientific method to historical science since we don’t have direct access to the past. We can not observe or repeat the past. However our historical science affects how we interpret our observational science.

To helps us to understand the difference between observable and historic science let’s use the Millennium dome as an example.

  1. The Millennium dome is largest of its type in the world
  2. Built in London uk
  3. Was built to house the Millennium experience exhibition at the beginning of the third millennium.

All three facts about the Millennium dome are true but how do we known, how can we test them. We can use observational science and go to London uk and see the dome there. We can also measure the dome and compare that measurement to other domes of its type around the world. However that’s all we can verify using observational science. How do we then known is was built to house the Millennium experience exhibition at the turn of the third millennium. For this we have to use historical science and look at historical records.

However the distinctions between observational and historical science are not explained in the public schools but both are taught as scientific fact.

When it comes to the origins of the universe you can either base your historical science on man’s word, for example big bang theory, Darwin’s origins of species or God’s word. Man’s word is based upon man’s own opinion and the philosophy of naturalism, which is the religion of Atheism. Naturalism is different to the christian view of the uniformity of nature. Conditions change but natural laws stay the same. God’s word is written by man but inspired by God. Inspired by the creator of the universe, the only eye witness and he tell us how he made it in Genesis chapters 1 and 2.

Lets look at another example and have a look at the age of the earth issue. Man’s word says that the universe is about 15 billion years old. However the bible says that God created the universe in six days. That he created mankind on the sixth day. When we track back through the genealogies of the bible we get an age of about 6,000 years old.

You are probably thinking that we known the age of the universe is about 15 billion years old due to dating methods. However most don’t realize that all dating methods use both observational and historical science. We will now take a look specifically at radiometric dating, as this is the most common dating method to support billions of years. Radiometric dating analysis the elements in the fossil or rock. Now they are parent elements and daughter elements. Over time parent elements radioactively decay into the daughter elements. For example uranium with radioactively decay into lead and potassium will radioactively decay into argon. They analyse the chemical elements and the amount of parent and daughter elements. They then using the current decay rates to calculate the age. However they have to make the following assumptions:

  1. They have to assume the starting conditions. That when it was formed they were only parent elements.
  2. They have to assume that all the daughter elements present came about through the process of radioactive decay and hasn’t been contaminated since.
  3. They have to assume that the decay rates have always been constant.

When it comes to observational evidence for a young earth we only need to take a look at the moon. The moon acts as a tidal bulge on the earth that causes the moon to spiral outwardly very slowly. This would cause the moon to be closer to the earth in the past. If the earth is only 6,000 years old then the moon has only moved 800 foot. However if the moon and the earth is older in just 1.5 billion years ago the moon would of been touching the earth.

Worldview Debate

The Worldview Debate


A  worldview is a network of presuppositions that we use to make sense of the world around us.  We use our worldview as a filter to interpret our experiences and evidence. So our worldview is our starting point.  


This leads us to the question what is a presupposition?  A presupposition in short are our very basic beliefs about reality.  They form our interpretation philosophy from the outset before any investigation of evidence.  We must always have presuppositions before we can analyse any evidence.


Some people might say that they look at evidence from a non bios view and form their conclusions from the evidence alone.  This philosophy is a presupposition in itself as its a rule of how to interpret the evidence.


Some basic presuppositions are that our senses in the most part are reliable.  What we can see, hear, touch, taste and smell can be trusted. That our memories the majority of the time can be trusted.  


As christians if we truly believe the Bible to be the inspired words of God.  Inspired by an eternal God that exists outside of time and that he created the universe, is a holy and perfect God, is truth, his word is true, then the Bible should be our authority.  As Christians this should be one of our basic presuppositions and ultimate presupposition. Therefore we should not compromise on it nor should we omit it from our apologetic answers.


The challenge facing Christians today is to not bring a worldview to the Bible but to form a worldview from the Bible.  After all it is our ultimate presupposition. When it comes to the origins of creation there is only two choices fallible man’s own thoughts and theories or God’s word.  Let’s think how God thinks and sees the world through his eyes.


Psalm 19 : 7 – 9 says “ The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple; The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes; The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether”.


None Christians and some Christians would argue that in debates we shouldn’t use the Bible.  However if you do this then you are handing victory to your opponent because you are abandoning your worldview.  This is then forcing you to adopt the worldview of your opponent. There is no such thing as neutral ground.


Matthew 12 : 30 “He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad”.


Evidence alone will not solve a worldview debate.  As we interpret that evidence through the lens of our worldview.  This is why as a Christian I look at the universe with its trillions of stars and wonder in amazement how creative God is.  However an atheist might look at the universe and be amazed at what can come about through chance and random processes. We are both looking at the same universe (evidence) but through our individual worldviews and can come to different conclusions.  This does not mean that we can not use evidence but we need to be carefully about how we use it.